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Another_Lurker10K289
A small thing anyway, and yes, I do know that discord reigns over the Wikipedia article, but frankly some of the people contributing to that discord are talking spherical objects, and politically motivated, politically correct spherical objects to boot!
Amongst those with a genuine reason to be concerned about the matter I think that rather than the definition you have given in your contribution #770 above the accepted definition of an English Public School is more or less that currently extant in Wikipedia:
A public school in England and Wales is a long-established, student-selective, fee-charging independent secondary school that caters primarily for children aged between 11 or 13 and 18, and whose head teacher is a member of the Headmasters’ and Headmistresses’ Conference (HMC).
Public schools can have all sorts of ancient or comparatively recent origins and funding models within their private status. They can be boarding schools, boarding and day schools, or day schools. They can be single sex or co-ed, as my old school sadly now is. They are generally fee paying, but many of them offer a variety of scholarships, either directly or via sponsoring organisations. Thank goodness mine did and that my Local Authority funded a few scholarships or I certainly wouldn’t have been able to attend it. But the common factor to define an English Public School for many many years has consistently been the HMC membership.
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KKxyz3,59957
I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. Have I got my definition or explanation of “public school” wrong? I was trying to explain why private schools were called public schools in the UK at a time when there were no taxpayer-funded schools open to all comers.
My suggestion was that the customs and practices of recognised old schools in the England set the standard and tone for newer schools in the UK and former British Empire. Rugby School under Thomas Arnold (headmaster 1828 to 1841), and the notion of “muscular Christianity” had a big influence on me and my high school experiences. I want to know whether any similar schools in the USA and a similar influence on other newer schools in the USA. My preliminary reading suggests not but I have so far found little of relevance to the schools Southern states.
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Another_Lurker10K289
No significant problems I assure you!
I was merely concerned that in your contribution #770 in the thread above you defined English Public Schools as:
Privately owned schools open to the public or at least to the sons of wealthy parents with sufficient money and social standing and therefore called “public schools” in contrast to private schools that were not open to the public.
As one of a great many people who have enjoyed the benefits of a Public School education without the benefits of a family either wealthy or particularly elevated in social status I found that description a little politically biased – or at least it would be if you were resident in the UK, which of course you aren’t.
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KKxyz3,59957
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Another_Lurker10K289
Well some would say you got one out of three with ‘intelligent’, but I fear there would be others who would score you zero out of three. As for fitting in well at a Public School, you are mistaken. At the time my nick-name was prefixed with ‘red’ and it had nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of my hair.
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KKxyz3,59957
Works of fiction, especially those set in UK “public” schools had a big influence on the attitudes towards and the ready acceptance of robust forms of CP in schools that followed the British tradition. It was very clear from the stories that no school could operate without CP. Also, it was clear boys were expected to take their punishment without fuss or rancour. Most did so both in fiction and in reality.
What was the situation in the USA and especially the Southern States? . Did fictional works normalise CP and / or favour the adoption of the paddle in schools? I suspect not but am largely ignorant,
Modern lists of 19th century books to read do not promote paddling or school CP. Is there bias in the selections given the need for reading lists to be uplifting and political correct?
What were USA children reading in the 19th and early 20th centuries that might have influenced their and their parents’ attitudes to school CP?
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2015holyfamilypenguin4,32069
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KKxyz3,59957
High school football teams are very important in many communities in the USA South. Football team coaches are far more important and have far more influence than physical education teachers and Rugby team coaches in schools that follow the United Kingdom / British Commonwealth tradition. Often, the coaches are the men who wield the paddle with little compunction and some enthusiasm. Do football traditions explain the adoption and continued use of the paddle in the South?
In 1905, President Theodore Roosevelt – an avowed football fan – summoned coaches and athletic advisers from Harvard University, Yale University and Princeton University to the White House to discuss how to improve the game of football, “especially by reducing the element of brutality in play”. Rule changes followed. Coaching styles continue to evolve but training remains arduous.
I have not read any of the following but a very superficial scan suggests that school CP is little mentioned in the US works.
Excerpts:
The school story is a fiction genre centering on older pre-adolescent and adolescent school life, at its most popular in the first half of the twentieth century. While examples do exist in other countries, it is most commonly set in English boarding schools and mostly written in girls’ and boys’ subgenres, reflecting the single-sex education typical until the 1950s. It focuses largely on friendship, honor and loyalty between pupils. Plots involving sports events, bullies, secrets, rivalry and bravery are often used to shape the school story.
[. . .]
While school stories originated in Britain with Tom Brown’s Schooldays, school stories were also published in other countries. ‘Schulromane’ were popular in Germany in both the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, and school stories were also published in Soviet Russia. Some American classic children’s novels also relate to the genre, including What Katy Did at School (1873) by Susan Coolidge, Little Men (1871) by Louisa May Alcott and Little Town on the Prairie (1941) by Laura Ingalls Wilder. The 1980s and 1990s Sweet Valley High series by Francine Pascal and others are set in California.
However, the core school story theme of the school as a sort of character in itself, actively formed by the pupils and their enjoyment of being there, is primarily a British and American phenomenon. In France, Mémoires d’Un Collégien (1907) by André Laurie (Jean-François Paschal Grousset), set in a boarding-school context similar to Talbot Baines Reed’s St. Dominic’s in England and Arthur Stanwood Pier’s St. Timothy’s in America, would have a considerable influence on French stories in the genre.
German school stories tended to be written for adults, in the tradition of the earlier Bildungsroman, and explored the disruption the school environment made to a character’s sense of individuality. Soviet stories tended to focus on how individualistic behaviour could be corrected and brought into line with collective goals by the school environment. See also manga such as School Rumble and US dramas Beverly Hills 90210, Glee and Pretty Little Liars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_story
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Arthur Stanwood Pier (1874-1966) USA author. Attended and taught at St. Paul’s School (Concord, N.H.). Wrote stories about the fictional school St Timothy’s where the switch seemed to have reigned. There are no obvious connections with the US South or indications that Southern attitudes borrowed anything from Pier.
http://www.wcdrutgers.net/pier.htm
The Boys of St. Timothy’s, the first of his boarding school stories, was published in 1904.
https://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hxdm9l
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The Youth’s Companion (1827–1929), known in later years as simply The Companion—For All the Family, was an American children’s magazine that existed for over one hundred years until it finally merged with The American Boy in 1929. The Companion was published in Boston, Massachusetts by the Perry Mason Company (later renamed “Perry Mason & Co.” after the founder died). From 1892 to 1915 it was based in the Youth’s Companion Building, which is now on the National Register of Historic Places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Youth%27s_Companion
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The American Boy was a monthly magazine published by The Sprague Publishing Co. of Detroit, Michigan from November 1899 to August 1941. At the time it was the largest magazine for boys, with a circulation of 300,000, and it featured action stories and advertising for the young boy.